tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post4234292435866558311..comments2023-05-08T02:27:18.956-07:00Comments on Dallin+Katie: Here's why Kate Kelly was not excommunicated for asking questionsKatiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17736049937652054001noreply@blogger.comBlogger311125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-89258461988297221812014-07-07T13:35:05.686-07:002014-07-07T13:35:05.686-07:00Organizations, such as businesses, clubs, and yes,...Organizations, such as businesses, clubs, and yes, even churches, have the right to regulate their own standards and requirements for membership. Imagine the chaos that would result if a business could not decide who to hire or was not allowed to establish reasonable employee behavior on the work premises. Imagine if an employer could never fire anyone no matter how illegal or inappropriate the behavior of the employee. Imagine an employee who deliberately engages in a public campaign to undermine and damage the company he/she works for. This is similar to what Kate Kelly and others like her do to the Church. Of course that company has the right to fire the employee. Same with Churches. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has supported the right of its members to have questions, doubts, and even disagreements, as long as they address those issues in an appropriate way. But when one engages in a public campaign to contradict and oppose the church, and to tear down the faith of others, and that individual refuses to address the issue privately with church authorities ( - she wouldn’t even agree to appear at a meeting to discuss it with church leaders and she insists on continuing the movement - what do you expect the church to do? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04556006350443501733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-79048501776802042072014-07-07T03:22:17.990-07:002014-07-07T03:22:17.990-07:00Being a member of my church baptized into the chur...Being a member of my church baptized into the church without the ability to receive a blessing as a child I can bare testimony of how susebitable it makes us to the adversary to not have the proper utensils (priesthood holders) to protect us from as the scriptures put it VERBATIM "The fire darts of the adversary". This happens when a family LACKS the priesthood because of divorce, death, or disobedience to the ordinances of the gospel. The priesthood is a special blessing bestowed upon worthy members of the church. If GOD sees fit to ordain the priesthood to a woman it is my belief that in this day and age (s)he will receive those blessing(s) as the lord sees fit through direct administration from the hands of angels. While this is not taught directly in the church it does specify numerous times in the scriptures and articles of faith the capabilities and blessings and "gifts" we have as member(s). As women it is important that we are first able to recognize the gifts that we been given to magnify our calling(s) AND IF not "WHEN" God sees fit he will provide revelation through administration of angels for the CHURCH MEMBERS AS A WHOLE through the prophet. As of now it is a personal matter between women and they may receive revelation for there own families regardless of the callings they hold as is TOLD by the 7th article of faith and it is stated directly and without any room for interpretation. THAT WE BELIEVE IN THE GIFT OF TOUNGES, PROPHECY, REVELATION, VISIONS, HEALING, INTERPRRTATION OF TOUNGES AND SO FORTH. The articles of faith go on to quote Article of Faith # 9 which means we as members believe the gospel to always be fulfilled in accordance to Gods will " God has revealed, all that he does now reveal" so on. Specific callings of the church are then outlined in Article Faith # 6 All of which women can with the exception of very few callings. The articles of faith do not segregate faith based on "gender". If you have Faith in the Church your views should always coincide with these very basic principles of the church. In the situation above, the viewpoint simply reflects apostasy and opposition to the corner stones of the church.The Anderson Familyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16849326583661745357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-25197797077922310632014-07-06T23:51:07.113-07:002014-07-06T23:51:07.113-07:00Being a member of my church baptized into the chur...Being a member of my church baptized into the church without the ability to receive a blessing as a child I can bare testimony of how susebitable it makes us to the adversary to not have the proper utensils (priesthood holders) to protect us from as the scriptures put it VERBATIM "The fire darts of the adversary". This happens when a family LACKS the priesthood because of divorce, death, or disobedience to the ordinances of the gospel. The priesthood is a special blessing bestowed upon worthy members of the church. If GOD sees fit to ordain the priesthood to a woman it is my belief that in this day and age (s)he will receive those blessing(s) as the lord sees fit through direct administration from the hands of angels. While this is not taught directly in the church it does specify numerous times in the scriptures and articles of faith the capabilities and blessings and "gifts" we have as member(s). As women it is important that we are first able to recognize the gifts that we been given to magnify our calling(s) AND IF not "WHEN" God sees fit he will provide revelation through administration of angels for the CHURCH MEMBERS AS A WHOLE through the prophet. As of now it is a personal matter between women and they may receive revelation for there own families regardless of the callings they hold as is TOLD by the 7th article of faith and it is stated directly and without any room for interpretation. THAT WE BELIEVE IN THE GIFT OF TOUNGES, PROPHECY, REVELATION, VISIONS, HEALING, INTERPRRTATION OF TOUNGES AND SO FORTH. The articles of faith go on to quote Article of Faith # 9 which means we as members believe the gospel to always be fulfilled in accordance to Gods will " God has revealed, all that he does now reveal" so on. Specific callings of the church are then outlined in Article Faith # 6 All of which women can with the exception of very few callings. The articles of faith do not segregate faith based on "gender". If you have Faith in the Church your views should always coincide with these very basic principles of the church. In the situation above, the viewpoint simply reflects apostasy and opposition to the corner stones of the church.The Anderson Familyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16849326583661745357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-10836351609335352822014-07-06T21:18:58.585-07:002014-07-06T21:18:58.585-07:00Kate Kelly is a liar. Period. I've read the ...Kate Kelly is a liar. Period. I've read the articles from both sides of the debate, I've watched her interviews, I've listened to her version of events, and I believe with 100% certainty that she. is. a. liar. She's not a victim of misunderstanding, or an unfortunate casualty who happened to get caught in the crossfire of "old-fashioned" vs "modern". She knew exactly what she was doing, she knew what words to use and made sure there was media coverage at each and every step along the way, and here's the kicker:<br /><br />Mormons believe that members of the priesthood possess the same power and authority that Jesus Christ gave to his apostles: "power to bind on earth [and it] will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven". Kate Kelly believes that this power should be held equally by both men and women (currently it is only available to faithful male members). Here's where the giant contradiction comes in: As a "faithful and loyal" mormon, Kate Kelly believes that the power those "crotchety old men" have should be hers as well, but when they refuse to comply with her demands, she instead suddenly ceases to believe in the power itself. Here's the interview:<br /><br />When an interviewer asked "What happens now? How will you continue to exercise your faith outside of the church now that you’ve been excommunicated" Kate Kelley responded with "I do not acknowledge that God recognizes this decision. I don’t think that I’m not going to be in heaven with my family. I don’t think these men have control over that." <br /><br />Remember, those old men have the priesthood (the power she wants extended to women), so she not only acknowledges that the authority exists, but acknowledges that those old men possess it. Suddenly though, she denies that they have the authority to excommunicate her (to unbind her from the church of Christ), thereby denying that their authority is valid. So what was it that she was really after? Social status, that's all.<br /><br />As a reminder to anyone who thinks this whole system is a load of crap, please understand that the Mormon church is NOT a democracy. Democracy works great for 'Murica (actually... it's not really doing so great lately, is it...), but God runs a Kingdom, where mandates come from the top, and we don't decide on things by popular vote, and while we recognize that priesthood holders are imperfect humans, we believe that God wants us to be obedient to their decisions, thereby allowing all of us to learn and progress together, rather than tearing eachother down as happens so often in our world...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00735525625279450051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-86002536913786391522014-07-06T21:18:07.563-07:002014-07-06T21:18:07.563-07:00Kate Kelly is a liar. Period. I've read the ...Kate Kelly is a liar. Period. I've read the articles from both sides of the debate, I've watched her interviews, I've listened to her version of events, and I believe with 100% certainty that she. is. a. liar. She's not a victim of misunderstanding, or an unfortunate casualty who happened to get caught in the crossfire of "old-fashioned" vs "modern". She knew exactly what she was doing, she knew what words to use and made sure there was media coverage at each and every step along the way, and here's the kicker:<br /><br />Mormons believe that members of the priesthood possess the same power and authority that Jesus Christ gave to his apostles: "power to bind on earth [and it] will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven". Kate Kelly believes that this power should be held equally by both men and women (currently it is only available to faithful male members). Here's where the giant contradiction comes in: As a "faithful and loyal" mormon, Kate Kelly believes that the power those "crotchety old men" have should be hers as well, but when they refuse to comply with her demands, she instead suddenly ceases to believe in the power itself. Here's the interview:<br /><br />When an interviewer asked "What happens now? How will you continue to exercise your faith outside of the church now that you’ve been excommunicated" Kate Kelley responded with "I do not acknowledge that God recognizes this decision. I don’t think that I’m not going to be in heaven with my family. I don’t think these men have control over that." <br /><br />Remember, those old men have the priesthood (the power she wants extended to women), so she not only acknowledges that the authority exists, but acknowledges that those old men possess it. Suddenly though, she denies that they have the authority to excommunicate her (to unbind her from the church of Christ), thereby denying that their authority is valid. So what was it that she was really after? Social status, that's all.<br /><br />As a reminder to anyone who thinks this whole system is a load of crap, please understand that the Mormon church is NOT a democracy. Democracy works great for 'Murica (actually... it's not really doing so great lately, is it...), but God runs a Kingdom, where mandates come from the top, and we don't decide on things by popular vote, and while we recognize that priesthood holders are imperfect humans, we believe that God wants us to be obedient to their decisions, thereby allowing all of us to learn and progress together, rather than tearing eachother down as happens so often in our world...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00735525625279450051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-53381165576346303922014-07-03T09:08:59.145-07:002014-07-03T09:08:59.145-07:00Kind of like the missionary discussions to mormons...Kind of like the missionary discussions to mormons there is only one outcome the church is true. If you come up with any other answer you are wrong and the problem is with you... did the brethern even inquiry of the lord most likely no.John Petersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13724296386720670425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-55859813247666010102014-07-01T17:33:58.614-07:002014-07-01T17:33:58.614-07:00Thanks for the post! I totally agree! I started ...Thanks for the post! I totally agree! I started a website with the intention to help clear up misconceptions in the media about Mormon Women. What is happening int he media over this movement does not portray me or the majority of LDS Women I know. The purpose of the site is to counter the negative media and let the world know that this view is very small minority group that is getting attention. The site has keywords to come up in searches regarding news topics. The site has been up approximately 24 hours. Can I link your post to it? I am also looking for Women to put up profile of themselves - How being a Mormon woman is empowering and how the priesthood blesses their lives. Thanks! www.realmormonwomen.comBrendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00712584489158074885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-10037806407202474022014-06-30T09:55:32.777-07:002014-06-30T09:55:32.777-07:00A couple of days ago, I promised an updated link w...A couple of days ago, I promised an updated link when I finished writing again at Latter-day Jane. Here is "Ordain Women: A Great Divorce"... http://latterdayjane.com/2014/06/30/ordain-women-a-great-divorce/<br />Thanks again, Katie, for all that you do and for such a great, uplifting blog! We're fans. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13221467467812334218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-57903870503348958922014-06-30T01:21:43.401-07:002014-06-30T01:21:43.401-07:00Brandon, satan said there are many who would be wi...Brandon, satan said there are many who would be willing to teach you the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture. But if we truly are searching for answers to our questions (and we ALL have questions) we can find greater knowledge and light from God's messengers. When Peter, James and John visited Adam and Eve in the garden the first time, they did not provide any answers to Adam. The Lord sent them the first time only to see if Adam had been faithful to his covenants. If we trust in The Lord and in His timing, all things shall be revealed unto us. I respect anyone's desire to learn more and ask questions, but I would be SO weary of seeking those answers from anywhere other than from the scriptures, prayer, and modern revelation by those who God has appointed to be His voice. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04258547381681009867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-20332011980169935102014-06-30T01:19:45.807-07:002014-06-30T01:19:45.807-07:00Brandon, satan said there are many who would be wi...Brandon, satan said there are many who would be willing to teach you the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture. But if we truly are searching for answers to our questions (and we ALL have questions) we can find greater knowledge and light from God's messengers. When Peter, James and John visited Adam and Eve in the garden the first time, they did not provide any answers to Adam. The Lord sent them the first time only to see if Adam had been faithful to his covenants. If we trust in The Lord and in His timing, all things shall be revealed unto us. I respect anyone's desire to learn more and ask questions, but I would be SO weary of seeking those answers from anywhere other than from the scriptures, prayer, and modern revelation by those who God has appointed to be His voice. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04258547381681009867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-45764283692899795452014-06-30T01:18:09.425-07:002014-06-30T01:18:09.425-07:00Brandon, satan said there are many who would be wi...Brandon, satan said there are many who would be willing to teach you the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture. But if we truly are searching for answers to our questions (and we ALL have questions) we can find greater knowledge and light from God's messengers. When Peter, James and John visited Adam and Eve in the garden the first time, they did not provide any answers to Adam. The Lord sent them the first time only to see if Adam had been faithful to his covenants. If we trust in The Lord and in His timing, all things shall be revealed unto us. I respect anyone's desire to learn more and ask questions, but I would be SO weary of seeking those answers from anywhere other than from the scriptures, prayer, and modern revelation by those who God has appointed to be His voice. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04258547381681009867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-31328144007427075932014-06-29T23:53:28.450-07:002014-06-29T23:53:28.450-07:00Clint, I don't think the author is allowing an...Clint, I don't think the author is allowing any more comments on this post, but it appears that comments are still coming through email, so let me just say thanks for your insights into the CES letter. Some of the answers make sense depending on how much weight you give to which evidence and how you choose to interpret it, and I agree with you that scientific knowledge is evolving and we don't know everything. <br /><br />In the end, I think the most important question goes back to the Spirit, which you mentioned. You asked, "Where does the witness of the spirit come into play in what you choose to believe? Has there never been one for you, or does it just not stand up to the opinions of historians, Egyptologists, scientists, etc.?" My answer to that is I have most definitely had many witnesses of the Spirit, but what I eventually realized was that people in many other religions had just as strong of witnesses as I did, and their beliefs contradicted mine. This led me to ask the question, "When you feel like you have a witness from the Spirit, how can you be sure that it is really from the Spirit, or even from an outside source at all?" We may feel like it comes from God, but so do other people, and they get different answers. How can this be? Is something that's absolutely true/right for one person absolutely false/wrong for another? Or is "the Spirit" simply an emotional or subconscious reaction in the brain showing us what we want rather than what is objectively true? Is there a way to know objective truth for certain, or does it all go back to faith? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.Brandonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01649837790344212974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-8410914896208166572014-06-29T22:34:31.535-07:002014-06-29T22:34:31.535-07:003: DNA evidence of the Book of Mormon: I will ju...3: DNA evidence of the Book of Mormon: I will just say that while yes there isn't any evidence down in Central/South America, there is a whole bunch in the Great Lakes/Ohio Valley regions. Right where Joseph Smith said there was and where he actually sent missionaries to preach to the Lamanites. Visit bookofmormonevidence.org for more information.<br />4. Abraham facsimile: I will just say that Joseph never claimed to translate the image other than by revelation. The meanings of Abrahamic images may have had a different meaning in his day than what they meant during Joseph Smith's era. Take the American Indians for instance. Assuming that the Nephites/Lamanites actually existed on the American continent. Heiroglyphs made by the ancient Nephites would have a very different meaning than what modern day Indians would derive from them. That is because their understanding of truths has diminished over time. Now they believe in gods over weather, crops, etc. rather than one God over all things. So if Joseph were to translate an image made a Nephite, its meaning by revelation may be very different than what a hieroglyph expert might say. (Jesus vs. Quetzalcoatl for instance.) I hope this makes sense? <br />Anyway, I hope this helps in some way. Again these are just my thoughts and I am in no way an expert on any of these subjects.<br />Here are a few questions I have regarding Jeremy and others who feel the same way he does though. Where does the witness of the spirit come into play in what you choose to believe? Has there never been one for you, or does it just not stand up to the opinions of historians, Egyptologists, scientists, etc.? Do you not believe in any prophets, the Bible, God, or just not the LDS church and Book of Mormon? If not, then why? Don't all the religions and Bible have problems in their history? If you do still believe in God and the Bible then why do you not follow the pattern that Jesus described for finding truth. Judge by their fruits and seek a witness from the spirit. Instead they are doing exactly what he said not to do, which is trust in the arm of the flesh. Science, historians, etc. are continually changing their opinions and are a sandy foundation to build upon for sure. It is certainly ok to use their findings to stimulate questions and thinking, but why on earth would they be so sure that todays Einstein physics won't be tomorrows Newtonian physics?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02352150005675969400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-55324591572745308452014-06-29T22:32:56.265-07:002014-06-29T22:32:56.265-07:00Brandon,
I am by no means an expert on any of the ...Brandon,<br />I am by no means an expert on any of the topics brought up in the CES letter, but I will share with you some of my personal thoughts and feelings on some of the subjects Jeremy brought up. There were many so I will only share a few. <br />1. Different accounts of First Vision: I will just say that I have read each of the accounts and don’t find them to contradict each other in any way. Rather they just focus on different aspects of the vision. Personally I thought it was great to glean more information about the experience than just what the most common account says. I know in my own life, when I retell stories or even spiritual experiences to others, the details that I provide will differ depending upon the point that I am making and/or who I am talking to. It should be no surprise that he kept it to himself for so long after the response he got from the minister he shared it with and all of the persecution that followed. Even if he did get some of the details confused after so many years (he had several visions during that time) it doesn’t mean he was being dishonest or wasn’t a prophet. I remember telling my son one of my mission stories and then after reading my mission journal realized I had unknowingly combined two stories into one. I though I had remembered it so clearly that I actually doubted my journal at first. I am not going to hold Joseph to a more human standard than myself. Maybe that did happen to some extent and maybe the church leaders felt inspired that the JST version was the most accurate.<br />2. Josephs plural marriages: My own grandmother (not LDS by the way) eloped and got married at the age of 15. In the 1830’s , I do not think it would have even been that uncommon that one of Joseph’s wives was only 14. Keep in mind that the doctrine of sealings was brand new at the time. For years members wanted to be sealed to what they considered the righteous lineages over their own blood lines. Is it really that surprising that many women would want to be sealed to such a remarkable man? To my knowledge Joseph never cohabited with any of these women and since there has never been any of his DNA markers found in any of their lines, I doubt he ever even consummated any of the marriages. His detractors want to make it appear that he had some kind of insatiable appetite for sex, but based on the accounts of those who actually knew him best and given what very little free time he even had, I think it is safe to say that is simply not the case. Makes you wonder what the motives are of those who say otherwise are though. So many people get upset over others judging the motives of Jeremy and this woman who has been excommunicated, but they have no problem judging the motives of someone who lived over 150 years ago. In spite of so much evidence to the contrary.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02352150005675969400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-4604025483616093692014-06-29T19:30:28.060-07:002014-06-29T19:30:28.060-07:00This life is not a selfish pursuit of happiness &a...This life is not a selfish pursuit of happiness & personal fulfillment. There is a plan - we fill a vital role & purpose in being here. What we focus to will greatly determine how well we fulfill that purpose. If this is all truly about "a question" & pursuit of a solid answer, I believe this IS an excellent answer:<br />"The very fact that the Lord put Eve in a counseling role with Adam acknowledges eternal woman's great ability to do what needs doing. But her divine, developmental need is to act WITHIN the relationship, taking into account Adam's need to be part of that relationship--it was not good that man (or woman) be alone-- he needed her & she needed him... they need not to compete for ascendancy but to console each other in their mutual loss of paradise and their mutual quest to attain exaltation. The issue here is not who is more capable, men or women, but who will do the work God has appointed. If the presiding role of priesthood is withheld from women, it is not because they could not do the work of priesthood--that they are not spiritual enough, not intelligent enough, or not rational enough--but rather to foster the condition in which the man & woman may achieve interdependence. (keep reading!)<br />What makes all of this so hard in practice? It may seem unfair that the man is subject to a perfect head (the Lord), & the woman is presided over by an imperfect head (her husband). But how much humility the man must cultivate to hear the Lord's voice! And how much humility the woman must exercise to encourage & rely on her imperfect husband to make that connection! The man's presidency over the woman is designed to be as much a tutorial for him as it is for the woman as she submits to his presidency. A very fine tuning is required for each. Some of the principles that should govern the relationship between the man & the woman might be suggested in the Lord's instruction to priesthood quorums:<br />'The decisions of these quorums... are to be made in all righteousness, in holiness, and lowliness of heart, meekness and long suffering, and in faith, and virtue, and knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity; because the promise is, if these things abound in them they shall not be unfruitful in the knowledge of the Lord'.... Through listening to those the Lord has placed in positions of authority and blessing, one learns how to listen to and obey the Lord. Hierarchies of authority after the Lord's order accomplish divine purposes when embraced and sustained.<br />We see that the Lord has given us the challenge of not only perfecting ourselves individually but also perfecting ourselves in relationships."<br />M. Katherine Thomas<br /><br />Let us not forget the culmination in the Temple Endowment prior to entering the Celestial room. The token doesn't say "authority" it is "power" which is shared and is a blessing upon the posterity for all time and eternity. This blessing is based upon the interdependence of man and woman. "All that my Father hath shall be given unto him (them)." Spiritual power is based on personal righteousness, sanctification, faith, and submission to righteousness. These gifts are not gender specific, yet they can be achieved independently and in unity of the man/woman relationship. ImJustSayinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013266994268749593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-6411573326360216102014-06-29T19:20:07.924-07:002014-06-29T19:20:07.924-07:00This life is not a selfish pursuit of happiness &a...This life is not a selfish pursuit of happiness & personal fulfillment. There is a plan - we fill a vital role & purpose in being here. What we focus to will greatly determine how well we fulfill that purpose. If this is all truly about "a question" & pursuit of a solid answer, I believe this IS an excellent answer:<br />"The very fact that the Lord put Eve in a counseling role with Adam acknowledges eternal woman's great ability to do what needs doing. But her divine, developmental need is to act WITHIN the relationship, taking into account Adam's need to be part of that relationship--it was not good that man (or woman) be alone-- he needed her & she needed him... they need not to compete for ascendancy but to console each other in their mutual loss of paradise and their mutual quest to attain exaltation. The issue here is not who is more capable, men or women, but who will do the work God has appointed. If the presiding role of priesthood is withheld from women, it is not because they could not do the work of priesthood--that they are not spiritual enough, not intelligent enough, or not rational enough--but rather to foster the condition in which the man & woman may achieve interdependence. (keep reading!)<br />What makes all of this so hard in practice? It may seem unfair that the man is subject to a perfect head (the Lord), & the woman is presided over by an imperfect head (her husband). But how much humility the man must cultivate to hear the Lord's voice! And how much humility the woman must exercise to encourage & rely on her imperfect husband to make that connection! The man's presidency over the woman is designed to be as much a tutorial for him as it is for the woman as she submits to his presidency. A very fine tuning is required for each. Some of the principles that should govern the relationship between the man & the woman might be suggested in the Lord's instruction to priesthood quorums:<br />'The decisions of these quorums... are to be made in all righteousness, in holiness, and lowliness of heart, meekness and long suffering, and in faith, and virtue, and knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity; because the promise is, if these things abound in them they shall not be unfruitful in the knowledge of the Lord'.... Through listening to those the Lord has placed in positions of authority and blessing, one learns how to listen to and obey the Lord. Hierarchies of authority after the Lord's order accomplish divine purposes when embraced and sustained.<br />We see that the Lord has given us the challenge of not only perfecting ourselves individually but also perfecting ourselves in relationships."<br />M. Katherine Thomas<br /><br />Let us not forget the culmination in the Temple Endowment prior to entering the Celestial room. The token doesn't say "authority" it is "power" which is shared and is a blessing upon the posterity for all time and eternity. This blessing is based upon the interdependence of man and woman. "All that my Father hath shall be given unto him (them)." Spiritual power is based on personal righteousness, sanctification, faith, and submission to righteousness. These gifts are not gender specific, yet they can be achieved independently and in unity of the man/woman relationship. ImJustSayinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013266994268749593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-70847318689793173782014-06-29T10:10:37.904-07:002014-06-29T10:10:37.904-07:00 Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our ... Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our Lord and Master says all that needs to be said. It is not a matter of questioning or even answers or the lack thereof. It is a matter of obedience to the Savior.<br /><br />And for this cause have I said: If this generation harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them. Now I do not say this to destroy my church, but I say this to build up my church;<br />Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. But it is they who do not fear me, neither keep my commandments but build up churches unto themselves to get gain, yea, and all those that do wickedly and build up the kingdom of the devil—yea, verily, verily, I say unto you, that it is they that I will disturb, and cause to tremble and shake to the center. Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I came unto mine own, and mine own received me not. I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.<br />I am he who said—Other sheep have I which are not of this fold—unto my disciples, and many there were that understood me not. And I will show unto this people that I had other sheep, and that they were a branch of the house of Jacob; And I will bring to light their marvelous works, which they did in my name; Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me. And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them. Therefore, I will unfold unto them this great mystery;<br /> 65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts; Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely.<br />Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.<br />Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.<br />And now, remember the words of him who is the life and light of the world, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Amen.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01970589225337075152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-8245365128623578152014-06-29T10:09:23.345-07:002014-06-29T10:09:23.345-07:00 Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our ... Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our Lord and Master says all that needs to be said. It is not a matter of questioning or even answers or the lack thereof. It is a matter of obedience to the Savior.<br /><br />And for this cause have I said: If this generation harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them. Now I do not say this to destroy my church, but I say this to build up my church;<br />Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. But it is they who do not fear me, neither keep my commandments but build up churches unto themselves to get gain, yea, and all those that do wickedly and build up the kingdom of the devil—yea, verily, verily, I say unto you, that it is they that I will disturb, and cause to tremble and shake to the center. Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I came unto mine own, and mine own received me not. I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.<br />I am he who said—Other sheep have I which are not of this fold—unto my disciples, and many there were that understood me not. And I will show unto this people that I had other sheep, and that they were a branch of the house of Jacob; And I will bring to light their marvelous works, which they did in my name; Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me. And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them. Therefore, I will unfold unto them this great mystery;<br /> 65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts; Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely.<br />Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.<br />Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.<br />And now, remember the words of him who is the life and light of the world, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Amen.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01970589225337075152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-80325293089539820462014-06-29T10:02:03.468-07:002014-06-29T10:02:03.468-07:00 Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our ... Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our Lord and Master says all that needs to be said. It is not a matter of questioning or even answers or the lack thereof. It is a matter of obedience to the Savior.<br /><br />And for this cause have I said: If this generation harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them. Now I do not say this to destroy my church, but I say this to build up my church;<br />Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. But it is they who do not fear me, neither keep my commandments but build up churches unto themselves to get gain, yea, and all those that do wickedly and build up the kingdom of the devil—yea, verily, verily, I say unto you, that it is they that I will disturb, and cause to tremble and shake to the center. Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I came unto mine own, and mine own received me not. I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.<br />I am he who said—Other sheep have I which are not of this fold—unto my disciples, and many there were that understood me not. And I will show unto this people that I had other sheep, and that they were a branch of the house of Jacob; And I will bring to light their marvelous works, which they did in my name; Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me. And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them. Therefore, I will unfold unto them this great mystery;<br /> 65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts; Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely.<br />Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.<br />Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.<br />And now, remember the words of him who is the life and light of the world, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Amen.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01970589225337075152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-75361136888273764372014-06-29T09:59:56.698-07:002014-06-29T09:59:56.698-07:00 Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our... Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our Lord and Master says all that needs to be said. It is not a matter of questioning or even answers or the lack thereof. It is a matter of obedience to the Savior.<br /><br />And for this cause have I said: If this generation harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them. Now I do not say this to destroy my church, but I say this to build up my church;<br />Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. But it is they who do not fear me, neither keep my commandments but build up churches unto themselves to get gain, yea, and all those that do wickedly and build up the kingdom of the devil—yea, verily, verily, I say unto you, that it is they that I will disturb, and cause to tremble and shake to the center. Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I came unto mine own, and mine own received me not. I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.<br />I am he who said—Other sheep have I which are not of this fold—unto my disciples, and many there were that understood me not. And I will show unto this people that I had other sheep, and that they were a branch of the house of Jacob; And I will bring to light their marvelous works, which they did in my name; Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me. And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them. Therefore, I will unfold unto them this great mystery;<br /> 65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts; Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely.<br />Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.<br />Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.<br />And now, remember the words of him who is the life and light of the world, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Amen.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01970589225337075152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-26244754260739049052014-06-29T09:53:14.344-07:002014-06-29T09:53:14.344-07:00 Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our ... Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our Lord and Master says all that needs to be said. It is not a matter of questioning or even answers or the lack thereof. It is a matter of obedience to the Savior.<br /><br />53 And for this cause have I said: If this generation harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them.<br /> 54 Now I do not say this to destroy my church, but I say this to build up my church;<br /> 55 Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.<br /> 56 But it is they who do not fear me, neither keep my commandments but build up churches unto themselves to get gain, yea, and all those that do wickedly and build up the kingdom of the devil—yea, verily, verily, I say unto you, that it is they that I will disturb, and cause to tremble and shake to the center.<br /> 57 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I came unto mine own, and mine own received me not.<br /> 58 I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.<br /> 59 I am he who said—Other sheep have I which are not of this fold—unto my disciples, and many there were that understood me not.<br /> 60 And I will show unto this people that I had other sheep, and that they were a branch of the house of Jacob;<br /> 61 And I will bring to light their marvelous works, which they did in my name;<br /> 62 Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.<br /> 63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.<br /> 64 Therefore, I will unfold unto them this great mystery;<br /> 65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts;<br /> 66 Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely.<br /> 67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.<br /> 68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.<br /> 69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.<br /> 70 And now, remember the words of him who is the life and light of the world, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Amen.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01970589225337075152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-15218674700758331672014-06-29T09:50:12.481-07:002014-06-29T09:50:12.481-07:00Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our L...Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-70 Jesus Christ our Lord and Master says all that needs to be said. It is not a matter of questioning or even answers or the lack thereof. It is a matter of obedience to the Savior.<br /><br />53 And for this cause have I said: If this generation harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them.<br /> 54 Now I do not say this to destroy my church, but I say this to build up my church;<br /> 55 Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.<br /> 56 But it is they who do not fear me, neither keep my commandments but build up churches unto themselves to get gain, yea, and all those that do wickedly and build up the kingdom of the devil—yea, verily, verily, I say unto you, that it is they that I will disturb, and cause to tremble and shake to the center.<br /> 57 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I came unto mine own, and mine own received me not.<br /> 58 I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.<br /> 59 I am he who said—Other sheep have I which are not of this fold—unto my disciples, and many there were that understood me not.<br /> 60 And I will show unto this people that I had other sheep, and that they were a branch of the house of Jacob;<br /> 61 And I will bring to light their marvelous works, which they did in my name;<br /> 62 Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.<br /> 63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.<br /> 64 Therefore, I will unfold unto them this great mystery;<br /> 65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts;<br /> 66 Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely.<br /> 67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.<br /> 68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.<br /> 69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.<br /> 70 And now, remember the words of him who is the life and light of the world, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Amen.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01970589225337075152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-78953774611458179492014-06-29T09:06:16.780-07:002014-06-29T09:06:16.780-07:00Your article presumes that the church is both unif...Your article presumes that the church is both uniform and unified in its beliefs. This isn't true among the leadership and it especially isn't true among the different eras of LDS leadership. More importantly, it isn't true within its own scripture. <br /><br />The author and most commenters ignore (or perhaps your manuals are still leaving it out?) that early Mormon women used "the power of the priesthood" and anointed oil to bless and heal their own children and husbands and friends (and oxen in one instance) and to babble in tongues and translate. But today, with all your hard-earned wisdom and knowledge, any 12-year ordained Mormon boy outranks you.<br /><br />Your best example of how the church marginalizes its female members and dissembles its history is in your own bookcases. Pull out your husband's priesthood manuals (1990s forward) and peruse the timeline of the prophet that each manual represents. How many of the eternal companions (obeying the new and everlasting covenant of D&C 132) of all the polygamous prophets are listed in their timelines? None after the first wife! The lives of those women who sacrificed so much to obey the leadership in the manner you're all suggesting Kate Kelly should be obeying have been erased by those leaders. <br />Corahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557545639084728923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-3288021496227829402014-06-29T06:48:20.663-07:002014-06-29T06:48:20.663-07:00I thought it was well done. Kate disobeyed a direc...I thought it was well done. Kate disobeyed a direct order to shut up and go away. She was ordered by her priesthood leaders to take down her OrdainWomen.org web page. To stifle her desire to be of much greater service to the church and to support sisters who long to have god's power to bless their children, to heal ths sick, to comfort the needy. She was to stop actively expressing her desire to have a say in church governance and to work with those who had similar feelings. She was told to abandon those she had encouraged to speak of their experiences of being second class citizens in the church. She was told to do things she could not in good concience do. She had to make a choice to obey what she knew to be an unjust order. If she had done what she was told, I dont know how she could have kept on living. To me, it is why the suicide rate for LDS gays is so high. Why some drive to to the temple, park their car, walk up to the front door of the temple and there take their lives. Many gays are told they would be better off dead. And they feel that attitude all around them. If she had turned her back on her life's mission as she saw it, she would have cast herself into outer darkness. But that is just my ramling on.. maybe she will see the light, shut it down and repent and be able to be forgiven. Then she can again go to church and just listen and obey.UtahSouthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18141900617700086712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4846582609108711714.post-72104476918747165332014-06-29T00:25:33.381-07:002014-06-29T00:25:33.381-07:00Blacks were denied the Priesthood and righteousnes...Blacks were denied the Priesthood and righteousness eventually prevailed. The church's teachings on sexuality is hurtful to the LGBT community and women. The archaic gospel of scared and power hungry old white men is doomed. My God loves all people and recognises the power and wisdom of women.CrzyDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09161936374428179203noreply@blogger.com